It is a pretty disappointing response, especially given that this might've been the first time an addressed this issue in years over multiple threads. I agree with the idea that someone running MU is a part of Harudaki, and is using the site's features to track their releases/keep updated/etc... it's the only explanation that fits. d384z

Not sure why it's important to so publicly track a private group's releases -- to the extent of making an exclusive exception to a very logical rule -- when it's confusing to so many s, only for the benefit of one or a select number of people. But I guess it can't be helped. The next best thing is to make sure scan groups know Harudaki is private and therefore, they don't need to worry about sniping. (Groups shouldn't worry about sniping anyway... May the best translation win, in my opinion.)

떡대수 supremacy

Quote from flowinmyboat

Likewise, if the concern is that Harudaki's releases discourage others - could Harudaki's label have a "(private group)" logo in red or something after their name? This will let other scan groups know on a glance they aren't public releases and trigger a reaction to investigate things further, so they don't feel like they're sniping or think someone else is on it, so they shouldn't pursue it.

I rarely post on MU forums but I would like to second this suggestion.

Quote from flowinmyboat

could Harudaki's label have a "(private group)" logo in red or something after their name? ...

I second this, even without changing the color making their group name have "(Private Group)' in the actual group name would work

Harudaki --changed to--> Harudaki (Private Group)

It would only be a change of the group name and not an additional functionality that needs to be designed.

while adding private to the group name would help inform s when they’re on a series page, it doesn’t solve the issues of reading list updates or search results
their releases are still going to move to the top of lists even though there isn’t actually an available release, and the series they’ve scanned are still going to show up in searches (or not show up depending on the search)

Quote from Jessica_desu29

Not sure why it's important to so publicly track a private group's releases -- to the extent of making an exclusive exception to a very logical rule -- when it's confusing to so many s, only for the benefit of one or a select number of people.

seems like it just comes down to selfishness, the mod(s) simply don’t care. they’ve placed their own convenience over the functionality of the site.

“a just ruler” lmaooo

if i stop posting here i’ve been banned ^^

Quote from stjimmy

what a joke of a response
so harudaki is exempt from following site rules, and nothing is going to change, presumably because site management is either part of harudaki or is given access to their releases as a non-contributing member

good stuff y’all 👍

Quote from stjimmy

seems like it just comes down to selfishness, the mod(s) simply don’t care. they’ve placed their own convenience over the functionality of the site.

“a just ruler” lmaooo

Unfortunately, it does seem that Harudaki is being given an unfair and preferential treatment, and I'm afraid you're right in your assumptions. Disappointing, really, since the site won't be what it is without the reader's contributions.

Quote from Jessica_desu29

It is a pretty disappointing response, especially given that this might've been the first time an addressed this issue in years over multiple threads. I agree with the idea that someone running MU is a part of Harudaki, and is using the site's features to track their releases/keep upda ...

If that is the reason than I think it is fine. The mods get no compensation for working on this site. With the amount of time and work the mods put in they have put in, then they can have as many private groups as they want.

For example the mod lambchopsil has added 431,116 releases and does all the weekly surveys and probably a lot more that we don't see.

@lambchopsil just want to let you know that all of your work is appreciated!

Quote from lollylopmr

If that is the reason than I think it is fine. The mods get no compensation for working on this site. With the amount of time and work the mods put in they have put in, then they can have as many private groups as they want.

The issue is the exception that isn't applied in general, 99% of the time. If it's confusing to s, an explanation as to why would aid in understanding. Again, logic would ask why are private releases showing up and even used to mark a comic as "completely scanlated" when 99% of s interested can't read it? That truly has nothing to do with whether or not s/mods are compensated... it's a UX thing.

And I and everyone in this thread appreciates this site, which is why this thread was created. To improve something that was confusing. Constructive criticism, questions, concerns, etc and appreciation are not mutually exclusive. Just saying...

떡대수 supremacy

I agree it is annoying for the reasons that you mentioned. If you look I had posted on this thread earlier saying it would be nice to have at least some indicator that a group is private. My most recent comment was more along the lines of me considering "this group is allowed is because a mod wants it" to be a valid reason to have it.

I am well aware of how frustrating having a private groups release able to make a series as completely translated. I started reading Crimson Spell in 2006 but I will never know how it ends even though it shows as the translation being finished a few years ago.

It seems like at some point in the last two years, complete Harudaki releases are actually no longer marked as complete under the "Completely Scanlated?" tab. Just look at any of these recent Harudaki releases: (five)

Even though Harudaki has (apparently) translated to the last extra of the last volume of every single one of the above releases, the "Completely Scanlated?" tab remains set to No. I am not sure if it is a or a release mod or Harudaki itself behind this concession, but it is nevertheless appreciated.

In other words, if you see a Harudaki release marked "Yes" under "Completely Scanlated," feel free to change it back. Doing so seems to be unofficial MU policy.

Quote from lollylopmr

My most recent comment was more along the lines of me considering "this group is allowed is because a mod wants it" to be a valid reason to have it.

While I want to agree with this sentiment, I think this impulse needs to be counterbalanced with clarity and consistency in the MU database. MU has lots of rules—both official and unofficial—governing how releases and series are formatted in the database. These consistent standards are what make the site so valuable, and uphold the integrity of the database that MU's s, mods and s spend so much time maintaining.

The current solution to indicate Harudaki's special status, which is to accept their releases but not let them mark a series off as "Completely Scanlated," is difficult to understand for the casual MU . If I saw that without knowing the situation behind the compromise, I would be absolutely confused. Why is a series that has a complete set of chapter releases not marked as completed? And why can't I find these Harudaki scans anywhere, not even on the linked website(s) on their group page? If we're going to bend the MU rules, we should add some kind of written indication that the rules have been bent, if only to prevent more forum threads full of confused s like this one.

I like how clear and elegant your solution is, changing the group name to "Harudaki(Private)," which any can do using the group name editing function they already have. This can also be done to any private group going forward, if the s/mods see fit to grant any further exemptions in the future.

Quote from lollylopmr

@lambchopsil just want to let you know that all of your work is appreciated! Just want to echo this!

Quote from Jessica_desu29

And I and everyone in this thread appreciates this site, which is why this thread was created. To improve something that was confusing. Constructive criticism, questions, concerns, etc and appreciation are not mutually exclusive. Just saying...

exactly, if i didn’t care about the site i wouldn’t be so frustrated with how it’s being misused, and i imagine that’s how most everyone else feels. whether or not people appreciate the site and the people who manage it is not what’s being discussed here.

the reward for volunteering, in any capacity, should not be a free to break rules when it negatively affects other people.

if i stop posting here i’ve been banned ^^

if the mods want the ability to track private releases then they should build that into the website. or, like many others, these groups can manage their own website or discord

marking a group as private or not allowing them to indicate “completely scanlated” (which harudaki still does) does nothing when a huge part of the site tracks releases

if i stop posting here i’ve been banned ^^

Quote from calmpsalms

It seems like at some point in the last two years, complete Harudaki releases are actually no longer marked as complete under the "Completely Scanlated?" tab. Just look at any of these recent Harudaki releases: (five)

Even though Harudaki has (apparently) translated t ...

The "Completely Scanlated" column can be updated by any who has requested basic editing ability. I have noticed this column isn't accurate sometimes (if you run the Advanced Search option, "Only show completely scanlated manga with no releases," you can get a sense of the issue). My theory is that it's likely an uncoordinated effort by trackers of manga Harudaki works that reflects their inability to access the scans, even though there are releases being recorded. Many of their dj releases are marked "Yes" under "Completely Scanlated."

I agree that leaving it as "No" for their releases would help to the extent that someone will not see it if they search for completely scanlated manga, but as you noted, the confusion remains. This thread and a few others document the issue so if a person feels inclined, they can search but it's not ideal. I agree with the general sentiment, but after 2 yrs & much discussion by a variety of s, the official response being 2 replies that totaled 2 sentences seems like an indicator that the only avenue left to pursue is mitigation of what is a rather frustrating issue.

For what it's worth, stjimmy, I also don't get why Harudaki would track on this site or need to note releases at all unless there were non-Harudaki people who needed to be notified. An internal document would make more sense to me -- if only the people working on the manga can view them, then they are working on the release in real time and do not need this site for update/notifications. They could still add the manga itself to their reading list without any official releases being noted, too. This is what confuses me the most...the releases don't need to be publicly viewable for them to take advantage of MU's functionality.

http://i.imgur.com/LxhWm.jpg (will reformat this some day…)

Quote from calmpsalms

For what it's worth, stjimmy, I also don't get why Harudaki would track on this site or need to note releases at all unless there were non-Harudaki people who needed to be notified. An internal document would make more sense to me -- if only the people working on the manga can view them, then they are working on the release in real time and do not need this site for update/notifications. They could still add the manga itself to their reading list without any official releases being noted, too. This is what confuses me the most...the releases don't need to be publicly viewable for them to take advantage of MU's functionality.

yuppp i always thought it was so weird that they don't just have a spreadsheet ?? and they could still create pages here so could track on their lists. idk there's so many ways for them to organize things

it is kind of hilarious that we have

1. harudaki, a group that went private because they were unhappy with people reing their work, now very publicly bothering so many other people on a public website

2. s, both those directly connected to harudaki and those who aren't doing anything about it, who are breaking the rules that they force everyone else to follow

if ur private, then actually be private
if ur a mod, follow ur own damn rules

if i stop posting here i’ve been banned ^^

trash explorer scans also does this. they haven’t allowed anyone new since november 27, 2022 and yet MU still updates them just because they announce their “releases” on their tumblr even though the release itself is nowhere to be found. it’s so annoying. honestly, I hate it when groups are controlling over their scans in general like get a grip you are not the author or publisher. just your scans on mangadex like everyone else, you’re not special.